Thanx for the info. I got some boltars in the rust colour, im surprised i didn't get ne sooner but when i first was interested in soaps they were expensive i was skint and it was hard to get them imported to the UK lol i used 2 manage 2 grind on a pair of nikes i had somhow on slides yey for me.. nehows tiz cool meh GF will probs get some cleans and some BBK grind plates.